Dr. Phil's a tool
Tuesday, September 16, 2008
http://www.drphil.com/plugger/respond/?plugID=12524
One of his questions asks:
Did you have your second child the traditional way in a hospital?
Traditional???!!!
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Labels: ACOG, ama, birth, business of being born, midwifery, ricki lake
I totally prefer the idea of a home birth as well, but not knowing much about the topic as you and Ellen of course, what if there is a last-minute emergency like a breech position or other medical complication?
first of all, i don't know if i would call a breech position a last minute emergency. from what i understand, homebirth midwives identify this type of situation and most (if not all) others with plenty of time to transfer to a hospital if need be. that being said, they also have many tools and techniques at their disposal if need be to address those situations in ways that hospitals don't or don't know how to. for example, a breech position isn't necessarily an emergency. a prolapsed cord (around the neck) isn't necessarily justification for a c-section.
ellen's the right one to ask about this stuff, or any midwife, but you'd be surprised at some of the risks that being in a hospital puts you in to begin with.
two more points:
1) midwives don't only do births at home. that's ellen's main problem with that movie. there are plenty of midwives who work in clinics and hospitals too.
2) i'm not sure exactly how this works, and i'm trying to get the backup research on it, but apparently, transfer rates are faster from home to hospital than within a hospital. so let's say you're birthing at home, and something necessitates a transfer to the hospital. you call the ambulance, it gets there in 5 minutes, a 5 minute drive to the hospital, and once you get there, everyone's prepped and ready. if you're in the hospital, and something goes "wrong" (which is often a hyper-sensitive and dangerously over-cautious estimation of the situation), then the emergency room still has to prep you, the room, and all the doctors. they don't just waltz in with a scalpel.
Hope that's helpful. This should help further educate you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arCITMfxvEc
do you have that movie? i'd be interested in getting a pirated copy of it...
I forgot to include the whole reason why I chose to post about McCain's incredible war story yesterday. I've been re-trying to read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, and I came to one of those places in the book yesterday morning that forced me to put the book down to devote more time to fully understand a thought. Here's the quote that set me a-thinking (retyped via BlackBerry to let it seep in more slowly...like taking in a landscape on foot vs. from a car):
"She survived it. She was able to survive it, because she did not believe in suffering."
"She faced with astonished indignation the ugly fact of feeling pain, and refused to let it matter. Suffering was a senseless accident, it was not part of life as she saw it. She would not allow pain to become important. She had no name for the kind of resistance she offered, for the emotion from which the resistance came; but the words that stood as its equivalent in her mind were: It does not count -- it is not to be taken seriously. She knew these were the words, even in the moments when there was nothing left within her but screaming and she wished she could lose the faculty of consciousness so that it would not tell her that what could not be true was true. Not to be taken seriously -- an immovable certainty within her kept repeating -- pain and ugliness are never to be taken seriously.
She fought it. She recovered. Years helped her to reach the day when she could face her memories indifferently, then the day when she felt no necessity to face them. It was finished and of no concern to her any longer."
Labels: ayn rand, birth, fareed zakaria, fear, john mccain, suffering
Wow.
I can relate to that.
Big time.
The psychiatrist and Holocaust survivor Viktor Frankl (and I'm paraphrasing here) basically says that suffering is meaningless, it's the meaning that we ascribe to it that defines how we suffer, or survive suffering, as it were.
But again, wow, that quote hit me like a speeding truck.
Might have to re-try reading Rand as well.
i'm rereading the fountainhead at the moment. soon--atlas shrugged.
I must finally get around to reading them, so off to Amazon I go...
Out of interest Aras, I've always known you as a fan of Ayn Rand, how does one reconcile such objectivist philosophies with the Catholic faith? Or any faith for that matter? Because faith is hardly objective.
I'm not being cynical, just curious.
It's not a problem at all, Rachel, for an intelligent person. Surely you're not suggesting that I would ever argue on the basis of Because The Bible Says So?
Religious doctrine tends to prove true, so it's really very simple, even if you don't have faith. E.g. I work in a college with a health faculty, so I have many colleagues in social work that I've talked to about abortion. There were very many women in Soviet times that had multiple abortions. At the time, it was simply considered a method of birth control. Now most of those women have tremendous psychological problems that emerged only years or decades after the event.
Objectively, therefore, abortion should not be legal, if the role of the government is to protect us from developing tremendous psychological problems. (I don't think it is, but liberals do, which is why I don't understand their pro-choice position.)
If someone had predicted these problems at the rime of roe vs. wade, you probably would have called him hysterical. We haven't tied everything out yet, but the things we try that are in conflict with the bible tend to backfire on us. If I were an objectivist betting man, I would bet on the rest backfiring too.
And just about faith in general, Rachel: if you feel faith, closeness to God or Jesus or Mary, or Krishna, or Odin, or Whomever, then it would be objectivist of you to believe that closeness means something. When you read Atlas Shrugged you will learn that everything means something. If you feel nothing, then of course it would be un-objectivist of you to pretend you do.
@ aras: I wasn't going to, but I just had to respond to this after reading the following articles:
Study Fails to Find Link On Abortion, Mental Health, WSJ
And subsequently, this one:
Abortion not linked to depression, The Onion
Also, you suggested that you would never, "argue on the basis of Because The Bible Says So?"
Yet, the very next line of your comment:
"Religious doctrine tends to prove true, so it's really very simple, even if you don't have faith."
I think you have things backwards here, Arai. It's not that religious doctrine often proves true, but rather that religious doctrine is often based on truth/reality. The challenge then becomes one of finding out what truth and reality are, rather than letting them be defined or indexed for you in an ancient tome.
Your view seems to presuppose the moral veracity of the Bible, whereas I think an objectivist viewpoint would see it only as an ancillary work recording narrowly select lessons from reality, often missing the whole story.
This is a very dangerous mistake in my opinion. The Bible has often been misinterpreted and wrongly applied to wreak quite a bit of havoc. Wouldn't it be more prudent to look at the Bible in combination with scientific study, government statements (not really), and personal viewpoints defined by culture, heritage, parenting, and the Interwebs? In the end, I believe that any one of those sources of information could be fallible, and that it would be a mistake to rely on any one in particular.
I think you also misinterpreted liberals' view of the government's responsibility. I agree that one of the responsibilities they perceive is minimizing severe psychological trauma, which we have now seen is not linked to abortion. But on the question of abortion, don't liberals consider the government's role to be one of securing individual rights, and possibly managing crime rates?
The American College of Darius (ACOD) reiterates its long-standing opposition to hospital births. While childbirth is a normal physiologic process that most women experience without problems, monitoring of both the woman and the fetus during labor and delivery in a hospital full of God-complexed doctors is detrimental because complications can arise as a result of aggressive intervention even among women with low-risk pregnancies.
Labels: ACOG, birth, c-sections, midwifery, pregnancy
Marathon action on Sunday was especially inspirational after my Friday and Saturday barhopping extravaganza. Especially this guy who ran it wearing a duck costume:
so i don't get it, did you run the marathon or not?
If she was already in wicked good shape before she got pregnant, than that probably made it OK for her to keep training so close to giving birth. And likewise, easier to pick it back up afterwards.
And I'm sure she was closely supervised by her doctor/midwife/trainer/etc. :)
With a central focus on the unpredictable nature of birth, Mel Gibson's Apocalypto does a great service to shed light on the need for a naturalization of birth.

And then it starts pouring rain, and the water collects in the hole. Just as they're about to drown, the mom has an amazing water birth, and Jaguar Paw makes it back just in time after sprinting wounded for 2 days straight.
As with other technological interventions used at the time of birth, those using active management of labor seem bent on playing down or hiding any risks and reassuring everyone that it is "safe". For example they claim, "On balance, active management of labor is safe for the fetus, notwithstanding any associated dystocia. It is also safe for the mother" (O'Herlihy 1993). First, it must be said that such statements reveal a failure to understand "safety". Since every medical procedure or technology has side effects and risks, no technology is 100 percent "safe". In every case, it is necessary to balance the chance of a good result (efficacy) with the chance of a bad result (risk). With any intervention under consideration, the chance of a good result or bad result can be scientifically determined. Instead of telling the woman that the intervention is "safe", she should always be told all information on the efficacy and risk. But the decision as to whether the good chance outweighs the bad chance should not be made by the doctor, who is taking no chances, but can only be made by the person taking the chance --- the woman. Therefore the doctor can never say that any procedure is "safe" but only tell the woman the chances and let her decide (Wagner 1994).
Labels: birth, midwifery, movie, pregnancy, water birth